Category Archives: Podcast

This is an episode of the Libation Liberation Front podcast.

John and I both had shakers. I mixed up a sour with Bulleit Rye. John mixed up another fun creation, the Viva Zapata, with Jose Cuervo and a little spicy kick–Old Ballycastle Ginger Cocktail mixer, Stirrings authentic Grenadine, and Mexican chili peppers. Speaking about the cocktails with a bite, I was planning to return once again to Founding Farmers where I was looking forward to their muy piquante Bloody Mary.

Between the last cast and this one, John went to Kansas City, in Arkansas. He visited Boulevard Brewery and his hosts took him to Manifesto for drinks. Manifesto’s head proprietor was recognized by Imbibe and ran a classic cocktail bar with an awesome speakeasy vibe. John had a Papa Doc (rum, Barbencourt 8 year, spiced apple cordial, lemon,  Kansas City Smoked bitters)  and a Warden Precinct (Buffalo Trace bourbon, lemon, orange, homemade Grenadine, Angostura bitters.) Everyone else tried a Stay Wet, an egg foam cocktail like a fizz.

They visited a pizza restaurant, Pizzabella, and a German restaurant as well. They had a little barbecue but perhaps did not spend enough time to have some of the signature offerings from KC. John confirmed that their trip was incredibly, incredibly short. As John described it, they spent almost more time in the air than on the ground in KC. Regardless, John left with an amazing impression, of a hip, wonderful place waiting for demand to materialize. I thought this was an interesting counterpoint and contrast to our lament from a few episodes back about the other end of this trend, of great food, drink and shopping coming too slowly to the suburbs.

Overall, John said the beer selection every place they visited was great and the food was all good. That extended to the layover in Chicago, which is home to La Frontera, a sort of torta shack. On a previous trip he availed himself of Goose Island at the same airport, enjoying the Matilda. This reminded John of my experience at DuClaw‘s little taphouse in BWI, near here in Baltimore. I had a Euphoria, a gorgeous toffee nut brown ale. I often try to enliven my own travels by seeking out these sort of venues at airports, like Harry’s Tap House and Old Dominion in the DC airports, National and Dulles.

The experience of travel, especially seeking out good incidental food and drink, put John in mind of his work on Cory Doctorow‘s current read along of his first novel, “Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom,” which he is doing on his podcast to take notes in preparation for undertaking a sequel. In particular, this made John think of utopianism, not the popular conception but a more realistic one where there may still be challenges but abundance changes experiences and opportunities. This caused him to think of a great question: what would you do with practical immortality?

For me, I thought having that abundance of time would allow much more in-depth savoring of travel, food, drink and experiences. John suggested walking around the world, an idea very much in keeping with what I meant. This would lead to the opposite of the compressed, rushed weekend John just enjoyed, to really deeply hold to one of our mottoes, to travel globally and drink locally. An infinite lifespan would allow for really deeply appreciated regional differences and the craft going into them. Using time in this way changes distance, in a similar way to the old saying we’ve discussed about how 100 years is not so long in Europe and 100 miles is not so far in America. Immortality would bring the best of both.

For John, he expressed this idea that he’d only want to live as long as he was curious. This spoke to a similar driving force, following interesting experiences and new learning. He used the example of hanging with some friends who are beer enthusiasts and realizing that while he still loves beer, currently cocktails and spirits have been at the focus of his curiosity. I offered that more time would expand that, allowing a surcease of anxiety, a letting go knowing that one could always circle back around to an old curiosity after a spell of time to see what has evolved.

John tied this in to abundance. We both dug into the contrast between scarcity and abundance. On the one end, I related how choice can be appreciated after a period of organic or enforce scarcity, like the peasant fare we love or prohibition of alcohol, respectively. Watching Boardwalk Empire, an example of the latter, made me think of this, as one end point. Now we have such a proliferation of choice that we can drink for authenticity rather than investing in the craft of mixing to make the best of crummy ingredients. John explained this Grenadine he snagged out of a bargain bin as an example of the other endpoint, this odd, uneven distribution and mixture of scarcity and abundance.

We spent a good deal of time on that interplay, between scarcity and abundance, especially the mismatch when the mindset that emerges from one is unfortunately applied to the other. John tied this in nicely with his thinking on the default human condition, as an artist, the magic of craft and skill well developed and so seamlessly deployed it transcends.

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This is an episode of the Libation Liberation Front podcast.

We started off chatting a bit about the work retreat I was on last week, at Natural Bridge Virginia. While there, I visited Foamhenge as well as the namesake natural feature, surveyed by a young George Washington and the property on which the bridge is located later bought by another founding father, my favorite, Thomas Jefferson.

We kept talking about the charm of Virginia and places like Natural Bridge as we opened our beers. We both talked a bit about our experiences living and travelling there especially when we were younger. For me, my father’s history is also wrapped up in Virginia, Norfolk especially as a retired Navy officer and having been born there himself.

I cracked open a bottle of the Rogue Archivist, version 2.0. I talked through, again, some of the changes we made to this recipe. I also explained the new label for which once again we were fortunate to get Mia to do the design, six slightly different ones, in fact. John likes to describe this label as anonymized and it is definitely evocative of a Guy Fawkes mask. We originally made, and named, this beer for Carl Malamud. Given the timing of when the beer went into the bottle, we dedicated it to Aaron Swartz as well.

John mentioned looking forward to version 3.0 and I agreed, dwelling on the differences between 1.0 and 2.0. John asked in particular what we might intentionally differ going into this recipe next time. One idea John had was to smoke, to char the apple wood in hopes it might both allow the sherry to soak in a bit more and that the charring may add some interesting flavors itself. I pointed out this would be similar to some of the flavors made possible by longer mashes and boils due to the Maillard reaction. I liked the idea of continuing to vary the recipe, both John’s suggestion and of maybe also adding some Special B to get some more deeper, fruity notes.

John asked a question about pitching into two vessels from the same batch. He was a little concerned by what he noticed in his latest beer, My Island! I explained that this is what I always have to do since I use two smaller carboys. I only had one batch where I noticed a variation during fermentation but it was fine in the finished beer. I have to blend the two halves together into the bottling bucket which may account for that, a step not possible with larger batches. The ten gallon we made of The Rogue Archivist could not be blended but I still didn’t notice a difference I would have attributed to yeast. John thought maybe it would be worth blending the yeast starters if using more than one to try to even out any differences.

We continued discussing variables that might have accounted for the differences John saw. My Island! was a kit beer so we had less control than usual but we did mash and boil the two kits together. John mentioned that the shipment from Northern Brewer did sit on his porch for a spell which may have affected the yeast packs. I wondered what we could have done if the grains in the kits hadn’t been pre-mixed. This prevented us from handling the speciality and base grains as we might have done otherwise, to get different flavors from different processes for each. We both agreed the beer was still delicious regardless of any concerns.

John asked what I’d like to make next. He thought a double bock would suit him fine for his next beer. I admitted to thinking about something new, that I’d prefer to wait until the winter so that returning to my standbys would be at the same time of year as the previous two years. I thought out loud about either an Imperial or double red in the mode of Oskar Blues G’Knight or Great Lakes Nosferatu or a big English barley wine. John suggested if I did the latter, we should bring it together with his very British IPA, of which he still has a bottle from the very first batch. He also mentioned the idea of making both a barley wine and a party-gyle from the same mash.

John mentioned some upcoming travel for him, to Arkansas where he’ll be going to a speakeasy and to the Boulevard brewery. I just recently had their Double Wide IPA, which he has also enjoyed, and he’s looking forward to their Reverb. At the last minute, I remember to ask John what beer he opened. Appropriate of his thoughts on his next beer, he enjoyed a Troegenator.

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John and I got off to a very silly start, as seems to be a bit of a habit of late. James Bond, Venture Brothers and Archer references dropped all within the first few minutes. The last prompted a bit of a rant on my part about my idiot DVR.

I cracked open some recent home brew that John and I made in his kitchen, his My Island! double Irish red ale. This was finally our first all grain beer, made from a Northern Brewer kit. We used two five gallon kits but brewed down to 7.5 gallons to get a bigger beer. John made a drink he called Tattooed Hands with Root liqueur, Kraken spiced rum, St. Germaine, and root beer.

John had to get something off his chest on the subject of Vodka. As he said, where St. Germaine is the ketchup of liquor, Vodka is the tofu. He felt the need to explain that this is far from a pejorative, that like its soy based food analog Vodka is incredibly useful for taking on much more of the flavor of whatever you are mixing. As a neutral spirit, it is an essential part of a well stocked bar.

Neutral spirits turned out to be a good segue to another long promised topic, revolving around an old book John found, “Making Cordials and Liqueurs at Home” by John P. Farell. John perused the index and chatted about the breadth of topics, including interesting base spirits and products, covered by the book. Ever the chef and tinkerer, he suggested that the book, and other tomes like it, can be very useful just to understand good proportions when experimenting on one’s own.

John explained how the book also relates to the modern interest in bitters, including making them at home which is very similar in terms of process and ingredients. This made me wonder how these recipes and processes relate to something else that seems popular lately, infusions, so I asked John about the difference. John clarified that infusions are distinct if still very closely related and may have more to do with branding and using less neutral and more flavorful spirits, possibly with distinct branding. In general, cordials are sweetened and infusions are not.

John again dug into these old practices, to try to understand their place in history and relationship to modern products. The process of using neutral spirits with various steeped and soaked ingredients for extraction of flavor overlaps with alchemy and herbalism, on the cusp of early science where folk knowledge and even ritual was critical to getting a consistent result.

The interesting herbals that John mentioned made me think of another topic we promised to discuss, one of our favorite cocktail bars of late, Quench, whose bartenders use so many interesting ingredients. John correctly placed it as a beachhead for cocktail culture outside of the city, alongside Founding Farmers’ Maryland location. Sadly, these early days for us suburbanites often lead to disappointment due to enthusiastic reception and hence long waits and large crowds. I chose to see that a cause for optimism, that this will encourage more business to open, that there is clearly an unsatisfied demand. John agreed in as far as it signals an upward pressure away from fast food towards more interest, diverse and sustainable tastes coming to the fore.

Regardless, the cocktail menu is superb. Neither of us have ordered anything other the the selections they very intentionally curate. The food is also fantastic and since our first visit, they have been dialing the offerings in from the small plates they initially offered to the more substantial fare on later visits that seemed better matched to the challenge of sustain the conscientious drinker. John emphasized how that evolution is so much part of the draw. He also correctly pointed out how well this place serves the exercise of discovery, which I related to the trust in their crafting of their drinks.

John teased a little bit about some possible future topics, in particular revolving around the recently concluded Craft Beer Conference held here in DC. John had the good fortune to bump into a distributor from Louisiana and chatted about the evangelism of beer that goes along with that job.

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John reminded us of some of his musical abilities. The music he sung is appropriate to many of our discussion as what they were smuggling in “Smokey and the Bandit” was Coors beer. Interesting reminder of how history has often changed who supports the status quo and who disrupts it.

John just made a moda antigua before hopping on the mic. He has been crazy for Old Fashioned cocktails lately and this is his Mexican inspired take on that drink. He used Fee Brothers, Grand Marnier, and Herradura anejo and described how he made this cocktail. I made a recipe Andrea found in the Post, a Brown Derby–two parts bourbon, one part grapefruit juice, and one-quarter part honey. Explaining the honey I used allowed us to make several Archer references and to pine for making meads and braggots.

I tried to explain my preference for products made from honey versus the raw product. I mentioned two apiaries from whom I’ve purchased amazing single floral source honeys in the past, Bee Folks and Castlemark. I found both through the time I spent doing historical reenactment. We shared our admiration for how reenactors do so much good in terms of keeping alive traditional craft around brewing and vintning. Those communities are also very much into the libation, in the form of the gift economy.

We talked about the Post’s annual beer tasting event, Beer Madness. This year we were delighted at how they chose all local beers which yielded an amazing variety. Greg Engert, from Churchkey and Birch & Barley, helped pick the beers again this year. I was impressed by how the breweries included weren’t just canning and bottling ones but also local brewpubs, including Mad Fox and District Chophouse among others. John was impressed by the organization of the brackets, to taste like the beer menu at Churchkey.

Speaking of local brews, I had a chance to travel since the last episode, to Cambridge Massachusetts, where I was an invited speaker for North East Linux Fest. I indulged my usual habit of sampling local breweries. One night I visited Cambridge Common where I enjoyed Mystic Three Cranes and Pretty Things Baby Tree. For two lunches in a row, I enjoyed John Harvard’s right near the square which brews on premises. I had their Pilgim’s Porter the first day then returned with more friends to enjoy the Double Deuce barley wine and the Cork County red ale, which wasn’t quite the same as Oskar Blues G’Knight or Great Lakes Nosferatu but still delicious. We chatted a bit about the old world sort of ambience that we both enjoy in Boston and its immediate environs. We also digressed on the nature, challenges in making, and history of porters as a style. The beer that brought me back to John Harvard’s reminded John of a barley wine I shared with him recently, 21st Amendment Lower De Boom.

Before wrapping up, John teased the many topics we still plan to discuss including our trips to local favorite spot, Quench, and the long promised deep dive into cordials and liqueurs.

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I shook up a New Yorker, three parts bourbon, one part lime juice, a splash of grenadine and a half part simple syrup. John mixed a Manhattan with Hudson Manhattan Rye, Fee Brothers bitters and Dolin rouge.

John found our old fashioned drinks appropriate to the topic he had in mind. The brown spirits have him thinking about the power of inefficiency, that their wonderful character serendipitously arises from that what otherwise would seem like a lack. This runs so counter to the often mad, slapdash nature of our modern world. John’s idea made me think of a similar joy in food, as I most recently experienced with pork belly prepared at one of our local favorite places, Joe’s Noodle House.

John offered his recent experience at a place he rarely habits, the mall, as a strong contrast. The urge to the simple, the under appreciated and the inefficient again is antithetical to what many of our youth prefer in terms of the flashy, the obviously expensive and highly but superficially glossy. The difference at various stages of life and more broadly culture is whether one has more time or more money.

I pointed to yet another counter intuition, in the world of beer. The highly advertised, no matter how much it tries to speak to the inefficient, is too strong a signal of producers with more money than integrity. There are a couple of beer ads I have seen recently, that I described, my first reaction to which was that these are clearly ploys by the likes of InBev who is still trying to gobble up smaller concerns like Modelo. John pointed out a parallel in the early days of grunge in music and how quickly and inauthentically that was coopted by haute couture, ignorant of original conditions.

We both discussed how this flows into and informs the spirit of sharing we both cherish. John worried that pushing this point might be fixing us in an echo chamber. I reassured him that we do continually try to find ways to be clear on our reasons, that our rejection of non-craft beer is not snobbery but economic rights and fairness. There is always a way to speak to people’s taste in an open, humble way. I offered the example of a recent conversation with an ex-pat returning from Quebec, a conversation during which we discussed Unibroue.

John emphasized why he feels it is important to keep pushing the issue. I suggested that local pride and discovery may be another way to do so softly, without condescension. I referred to our discussion with our coworker Patrick. John mentioned a new development Patrick told him about, a glass collaboratively designed by Dogfish Head (John misspoke when he said Sam Adams) especially suited to hoppy beers.

You can see Patrick speaking to his work at our day job in the latest Broadband Breakfast. This is an evolution of our employer’s, Open Technology Institute’s, recent paper on data caps. The work of the team to which Patrick belongs has successfully dealt with the first round of critical responses to the paper. John recommended linking to a Sidebar podcast episode relevant to both our interest in beer and ongoing work at OTI.

What a lot of what we care about devolves down to is fairness, not necessarily free of cost. John explained how he is perfectly happy to invest both time and money but only where the rules are fair, whether we are talking about beer distribution or spectrum allocation. I completely agreed with John that if we should pay, and pay more, it should be for fair value not because of an anticompetitive situation. I cited another OTI paper on cost of connectivity to support my point.

As podcasters, we may only be flies, but even so we can bite the ass of the horse of the status quo to get it moving.

John teased a possible future discussion around a book on making cordials and liqueurs at home.

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We were joined by a couple of guests, Andrew (my wife) and old friend of the podcast, Chris Miller. I neglected to tell Andrea we drink on mic so she described the Black Russian she had earlier, around dinner time. She made her cocktail with Three Olives vanilla vodak and a spiced Kahlua. Chris poured a Samuel Smith’s Organic Chocolate Stout. I shook up one of my standbys, a double Manhattan with the Bulleit Rye Chris gave me along with my usual ingredients. John had a highball, with Buffalo Trace, ginger ale and a twist of lime. I like this same highball, enjoying a good bourbon with Fever Tree’s ginger beer, which I picked up at Barmy’s.

John segued us into our main topic, asking after the re-configuration of Andrea’s and my bar, pictured at left. Andrea described the chests we used in consolidating and presenting our altar to our guests. We side tracked into the odd German liqueurs in that middle shelf, including fig vodka, caramel liqueur and all sorts of herbal spirits, though no woodruff. I asked about that last because we had a delicious Berlinerweiss at the Bier Baron in which I would love to pour anything woodruff flavored. We talked about this style of beer with Patrick Lucey before the re-launch of the podcast.

John shifted more towards our main topic of how to stock a bar, inspired by the discussion of strays in our bar. Chris explained that he is getting a windfall from his tax return this year and after being responsible with some of that, he is splitting it between his brewing rig and stocking his bar. After hearing John’s coinage of the bar as an altar to the guests, he was curious on our thoughts on how to select appropriate offerings.

To start, Andrea compared stocking a bar to stocking a kitchen. You don’t need to stock for everything, not on day one. She recommended considering first occasion and seasonal appropriateness. She offered a couple of examples on the latter and I related the idea of season to our discussion of the same for beer. Chris agreed, explaining how he also stocks beer in accord with the season. Chris has talked about cooking with Andrea so liked the idea of having a few recipes in mind and thinking in terms of staples, first. John identified the risk on the other end, being overwhelmed by choices.

John expanded on the idea of the pillars on which to found a bar–The Manhattan, The Old Fashioned, The Martini, and The Daiquiri. Being able to mix up these basics leads to a simple selection of spirits that are then more wide and flexible. He also pointed out how complementary or even non-overlapping tastes, like Andrea’s and mine, can help make stocking up more manageable by focusing on the tastes of the bar owner first. Andrea emphasized the point that there is a risk of stocking too much with the guest in mind. Her thinking plays to the strength of what the owner knows, in terms of stocking good quality ingredients, as well as well known recipes to ensure a cocktail for a guest is well mixed.

This led to an interesting discussion of advanced bar stocking, in terms of enabling discovery by your guests. Andrea clearly identified the risk in undertaking that before one is ready. John explained a bit why he approaches his bar the way he does, in terms of the altar being for as well as to the guest. That is that one can have a bar, as a host, where guests are invited to mix their own drinks, if they are comfortable and know the offered ingredients.

We discussed how at a beginning and intermediate level, a safer approach is relying on a professional, sampling in an actual bar setting where the cost and risk in a drink one doesn’t like is limited. A commercial bar is stocked with a good selection of things you might like to try, less risk and increasing opportunity when trying new things.

Chris mentioned a book, “The Modern Drunkard” by Frank Kelly Rich in particular the suggestions for stocking for a party. The party described in mind is at a scale larger than any of the four of us typically undertake. Still, as Andrea said, the kind of party we may like to attend. The rundown of ingredients reminded me a what we turned into a running gag at our most recent brew days, from Super Sizers Go… “[interesting list of period eats], small beer, and (why not) more champagne.” The list made John think of a friend who stocked by color, which is giggle inducing at first but does suggest some interesting ways to thinking about balancing flavors and tastes, like hops vs. malt sweet in beer. John noted on omission, the bartender’s ketchup, St. Germaine.

We sidetracked into the virtues and vices of Jagermeister. It has thujone like absinthe, being made from wormwood, like vermouth. Speaking of absinthe, John thought of theme parties like centering around an interesting ingredient or a style of drink, like punches. Maybe intermediate stocking would be well served by thinking about thematic parties. Chris was fascinated by this idea, suggesting a pot luck approach. John immediately leaped at inviting each guest’s take on a Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster. I related theme to our thinking in terms of the home decor around our bar, that is tiki.

Speaking of tiki reminded John of the three times three rule for beach drinks. Three kinds of rum, three kinds of fruit, mixed up in a blender. Andrea suggested this is how most tiki drinks start. Going back to orphans, I asked how starting with the creme de banana we have, what would we pick for the other two fruits. We continued on the topic of strays, sharing more of the oddities we each have in our respective bars. Chris takes the cake by describing a flavored moonshine that is like drinking numb.

Chris brought us home, neatly tying together how we answered his original question. I expanded on an earlier point, about an inclusive way of managing a bar. As much as John does such a good job, he signaled he’d like to support another way, to invite guests in, to make the altar for as well as to guests, an open source bar.

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While John shook his drink, I talked a bit about how work has been going lately; in short mostly busy but good. John mixed an Esquire, a contest winning cocktail that is a hybrid of a Ward 8. He explained a bit more about the contest from one of his favorite sources on cocktails as well as giving the complete recipe. I speculated this cocktail might work with the Rye Spirit I discussed previously. John mentioned a cocktail similar to that rough, smoky rye he had in New York over the weekend that used Laphroig, a peaty, smoky single malt Scotch. John’s guess is probably like, given my acquired love of Islay malts though I corrected him my first love are the Speyside malts, like Aberlour A’bunadh. I offered a rum drink I had at Cuba Libre with grilled pineapple as evidence of how smoke and sweet can work well in a drink. John sent me a link to Bittercube as afterwards we got to talking about bitters based on some of the flavors we discussed.

Speaking of Scotch, I decided to share on mic yet another thing I shared with John and other friends at my 40th birthday celebration. I enjoyed a taste of Balvenie 15 year single barrel with my 80 shilling, The Pirate-in-Chief, to chase it. The two libations interact on the palate in a way that is hard to describe but unarguably wonderful. A key component of the experience was temperature, a facet on which John expanded a little as it applies to wine and beer, both. He very well described the evolution from first to last sip, how the temperature and exposure to air informs a richer range of taste. He suggested an experiment, to intentionally pair different malts and beers, an idea with which I wholeheartedly concurred. I suggested we could do that with bourbons and stouts as well.

Our main topic was our latest visit with some work friends and fellow beer lovers to The Bier Baron, a local DC favorite. One of our usual crowd now works on antitrust within the world of beer and we not surprisingly talked about a recent court decision keeping consolidation by InBev from progressing that much farther than it already has. Our interest follows from the issues we discussed early on so well explored in “Beer Wars“. You can check out an episode of New America’s podcast also cover these issues, produced by John and featuring Barry Lynn.

We spent more time talking about why The Bier Baron is so great, in terms of knowledge staff, excellent tap and bottle selection, and a great happy hour special. Not only is the price great, allowing you to combine a burger with any happy hour beer, but those beers are far and above what you usually see on such lists, which at most have Sam Adams and maybe Sam Adams current seasonal and rarely something like a Dogfish Head. Their list, by contrast, is two full pages, including not just the usual suspects but some excellent rotating selections too. If that is not enough, they have the full beer menu and a reserve list. I related the story of their reserve as it was explained to us on our first visit since the place re-opened. We saw many amazing things in their reserve, a Thomas Hardy, a J.W. Lees in Lagavulin barrels, and a Stone Vertical Epic older than either of the two I managed to acquire. The visit was made all the better by the company who kept us in stitches.

Next episode, look for a guest to join us. We also have another beer planned, John’s “My Island!” double Irish red. We may also discuss the latest with our friend, Brett, who is now the head brewer at Vintage 50.

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We introduced our topic, gruits, and John mentions a good source for more information, Randy Mosher’s Radical Brewing which has a good all grain recipe. Before we got any further, we talked about what we were drinking. In honor of the topic, I cracked open a bear, Dark Horse Tres Blueberry Stout, a leftover birthday beer. I had their Too Cream Stout earlier in the week. We agreed the blueberry worked wonderfully in this beer, the only other beer that shows a similar deft handling of fruit is Flying Dog The Fear. John enjoyed a nice glass of wine, Wine of Mendoza Agua de Piedra, a cost effective but delicious Malbec.

We shifted to our main topic, gruits. I had one, recently, a collaboration between Flying Dog and BrewDog, International Arms Race. BrewDog is notable for a one upsmanship contest with increasingly alcoholic beers. We explained what gruits are and dug into the history. John in particular related the place in society of gruits to liberation, one of the many points in the arc of beer where there were rules and permissions needed. John described a non-traditional gruit he enjoyed, Birra Etrusca Bronze, a DogFish Head collaboration in an Italian style with a lot of mouth watering ingredients.

The discussion of unusual ingredients reminded me of DC Brau Thyme After Thyme. John had a sage liqueur, another point that reminds us that there aren’t necessarily fixed rules, as with cooking, beyond what works and tastes good. This put him in mind of the role of heather in Scotch, which we discussed a bit earlier, when we agreed the International Arms Race would be a good chaser for a Longmorn 16. John explained how peat, whether used in an archeo beer or Scotch, has a lot of complex compounds that can vary by locale, much like terroir.

This led us to discuss the hand of the brewer and the distiller. There is the incidental, the environmental factors in the ingredients. There is the intent with which they are used, too. I mentioned an article we noted on the site some time ago, about ancient celtic brewing. This reminded me of one other key aspect of gruits of which we should be aware, that the lack of hops means that they are not as shelf stable as modern beer. The Flying Dog gruit is fairly alcoholic but that is another variable which John pointed out as affecting the ability to keep and cellar wine as well as beer.

We finished out discussing the role of ritual, probably very key in managing the complexity of brewing early on and the ability to repeat the result. John explained very well why this might be so but I pointed out that ritual still has a place, if different, in at least home brewing, if not craft and commercial brewing. The purpose may have changed but I suggested it was at least as important now as then.

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We started by describing our chosen cocktails. I had a White Manhattan which a fellow recipient of some Wasmund’s Rye Spirit came up with as a decent drink to make with that liquor. John went with the very traditional Sidecar. We discussed how within the range of citrus in which both drinks fall, how they differ in pleasant ways. Both drinks suggested to us things for further experimentation, with the Rye Spirit and the amazing rainbow of bitters that are available to the modern cocktail enthusiast.

I picked up a Bittermens Xocolatl Mole bitters for an El Dorado Sour.  Sorry, I could not find the recipe outside of Facebook so here it is quickly: 1.5 oz rye, .75 oz lemon juice, .5 oz white creme de cacao, 1 tbsp simple syrup, 1 egg white which can be pasteurized; combine all ingredients without ice and shake for a few seconds; add ice and shake for 20 seconds; strain into cocktail glass and garnish with Mole bitters. I also have some Fever Tree ginger beer for future experiments and testing.

We spent the balance of our time talking about the loss of Aaron Swartz and what it means to liberation, one of the concepts so core to our discussions. John led with a beautiful accounting of how key Aaron’s work, both on technology and policy, are to something so humble as podcasting. John’s and my lives never intersected with Aaron’s directly but we were in close orbit, especially through Carl Malamud for whom we have named and brewed beer. I gave a brief history of the legal case many are claiming contributed to Aaron’s decision to take his own life on January 11th of this year, at the age of 26.

I shared my fear that the loss of Aaron was part of an emerging trend that includes the suicide of Ilya Zhitomirskiy, Len Sassaman, and Chris Lightfoot, among others. I worried that those most likely to undertake liberations like these young men are those most at risk to the pressure and stresses that are often incurred as part of a backlash from the status quo. I tried to put into perspective what a five year incarceration would mean to a young person, let alone the 35 to 50 Aaron faced and how someone so prolific in their efforts may fear such terms all the more.

John mentioned one of the more constructive responses, the bill that Zoe Lofgren introduced, Aaron’s Law. The intent for the bill is to redress some of the disproportionate responses to crimes that happen to involve computers. Specifically, it would de-criminalize the violation of terms of service. John explained why the abuse of such violations in this case is so much more tragic, given Aaron’s intent and that much of the content he works to liberate, including in this case, really should be openly accessible.

Another thought I had was the frustration with the resistance of the status quo that folks working in this space are feeling. Aaron’s suicide may be tapping into more than just the grief and anger over losing him but also the anger over just how much those that defend the status quo work so hard to smother disruptive and liberating efforts. John agreed and teased out what disruptive means in terms of success, how critical it really is so that trying to shut it down really is a stranglehold on progress. I emphasized that we need both, what we are dealing with, as danah boyd points out, is a clear imbalance of power between incumbency and disruption.

John netted down much of our discussion to two paths: dark ages or renaissance. The differentiator that favors the latter is liberation. Starving society of any room for that impoverishes us all. He related this to his own personal experience as an only child, between being possessive or generous. I think it is clear where John falls between those two but he subtly touched on the intersection of liberation and libation in that gift we have discussed so much before.

I reiterated our desire to talk about gruits, hopefully next time, before we closed out the show.

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This is an episode of the Libation Liberation Front podcast.

John and I chatted at the start a bit more about our current situations at work. I confessed it isn’t the bureaucracy I fight that tires me so much as the challenges as a leader and a manager. For the latter, I draw on as much of my experience as a parent as I can without crossing the line into condescension. For John’s part, this job has been the most he’s been exposed to clear opportunities for consistent, sustained mentorship and learning. Both of us look forward to the challenges that come from environments that challenge us to learn and improve.

We shared what we were enjoying on mic. John introduced me to the drink I fixed for this episode originally on New Year’s, one of the few cocktails that mixes well with Scotch from “Esquire Drinks“, The Chancellor. I made this drink with the only Scotch I had on hand, the Balvenie 15 year. I used Dolin vermouth, Sandeman ruby port, and Regans orange bitters. This reminded John of a Bamboo, another light drink, mixed from sherry and vermouth. I try to offer a tip for remembering that French vermouth is dry whereas Italian vermouth is sweet.

John has been trying to recreate a drink he had at a local Thai restaurant, a peartini: Looza pear juice, a vodka from downstairs, bourbon barrel aged vanilla, and nutmeg. John made up a bunch of these at New Years as well, I found them to be refreshingly light for such a sweet drink. I even sometimes am not in the mood for even a sweeter bourbon, like Bulleit., however it is pronounced. At the opposite end of the spectrum from that, I mentioned the Copper Fox Wasmund’s Spirit, an unaged rye with smoke that comes roasting the malt rather than the barrel.

Mentioning New Years and my birthday megamash, we observed how we never start such an event filled with constant sampling and sharing empty handed, as you would making stone soup. We always ensure to make an initial gift, for ourselves and to everyone else who brings along something to share. We also talked about the beer we brewed at the megamash, a double batch of a recipe we’ve brewed before, The Rogue Archivist. In particular we talked about the change over to using far more grain and how we are trying for similar temperature control, to stress the yeast to bring out more of the interesting flavors for which Belgian yeasts, especially the Trappist varieties, are known.

We described for a bit some of the other goodies we enjoyed during and after making the mega batch of beer, in particular the chocolate cake Andrea made, with Kujo, after first seeing Sheila make this for friend of the podcast, Evo Terra. I confessed my birthday tradition of preferring pie, specifically key lime, to cake of any variety.

Next time: a chat about gruit.

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